There are many options for all of the described situations. The bottom line
is that if you do a good job scheduling the work for which you have advance
notice, then you will be in a much better position to manually schedule the
emergency stuff without negatively impacting the operation. If the
emergency stuff only takes one day then it probably doesn't make sense to
try and enter the details. But if it takes longer, you will need the detail
in order to make good decisions the next day or the next week. This is
especially true if you have multiple emergency jobs in your shop.
Specifically to the original question, if a majority of your jobs are T&M
and they must be started immediately after taking the order, then you have
to come up with some method for estimating the work and entering that
estimate into the schedule. Otherwise, you will never be able to understand
your capacity situation at any given time. However, you don't necessarily
need a complete routing. A single operation for each workcenter will do,
with estimated times for each.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Brumwell [mailto:kbrumwell@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 7:55 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage Visual Scheduling Board
I am taking the liberty of expanding on Gilda's scheduling question
regarding T & M orders.
In our industry unfortunately it is not a case of training our Quoters ,
Sales Personal, or updating BOM's.
We quite frequently are requested to repair a custom product built by a
competitor without the knowledge of actual dimensions, outer material or
electrical components. In most cases an employee will access the situation
at the Customers site, arrange to have their product brought in to the
facility and repaired on a T & M. Unfortunately for Scheduling, from the
time we receive the product and the duration the Customer may be without
this is minimal.
In other words, if it arrives today, start fixing it today. We do not have
the luxury of inserting this into our schedule because of the numerous
factors involved. The damage or repair required could be affecting their
business affairs or in a small percentage of times posing a risk to the
public. At no time prior to the product arriving can you fully appreciate
the operations or hours that may and will be involved. e.g. Custom paint
operation vs. standard paint operation.
Sam your valid question: "How would you, as a human, go about scheduling
the shop if you didn't know what operations were necessary or how long each
operation would take?"
This is the daily battle of all schedulers in this type of environment.
Quick demands for overtime, Sub-Contracting or even daily changing of the
schedule, is mandatory in keeping with Customer delivery dates including new
product.
Anticipating the question is "Field Service a viable solution". This module
is designed only for work in the field and does not allow for in house
participation or scheduling.
Gilda if you would like to contact myself directly, I may have some
solutions to assist you.
Kim Brumwell
Neon Products
Toronto
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 10:33 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage Visual Scheduling Board
How about garbage in / garbage out ...
Or
A little accuracy goes a long way ...
If you want a realistic schedule :
1) Key in routings with ALL of the steps required to make a part
2) For all operations key in your best guess as to how long it will take -
setup + runtime. For time and material jobs - put in your estimated run
times. Any setup and runtimes you put in are going to be more "Accurate"
then putting in "Zero" time.
3) Consider "Forward-Finite" scheduling your shop. Under "Finite"
scheduling Fixed Queue-Times are ignored - only move times have any
relevance.
4) After you run a part review the actual run-times and use that info to
re-educate your quoters so they will do better next time and also update
your BOM master routing so that next time you run the job the runtimes will
be more accurate.
5) Try REAL hard to get management and sales to understand that shop
capacity is FINITE, not INFINITE, and that they cannot insert 30 to 40 hours
of load TODAY on a work center that is back logged for 2 weeks without
repercussions !
The first 4 items are easy ... Just make it so ...
It's that last item that will get you every time. Sales people should all
be required to spend at least 1 month trying to schedule the shop floor
BEFORE they are allowed to talk to customers ...
Todd Anderson
J. Rubin & Co.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Southard [mailto:sams@...]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:18 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage Visual Scheduling Board
How would you, as a human, go about scheduling the shop if you didn't know
what operations were necessary or how long each operation would take?
As I've put it, it sounds silly, but I'd like to hear your responses. We
find the Visual Scheduling Board somewhat awkward to use, and disciplines on
inputting meaningful standards are lax. We're working on changing this, but
it's tough. We don't want to simply put 2 hour (for example) queue times at
a workcenter which takes, on average, 2 hours, because there's a high
variability in the time it would take and it would screw up the majority of
jobs that are properly estimated. As a result, the significant minority of
jobs which are not properly set up end up being scheduled to sail through
the shop in a single day.
-- Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: gcollins [mailto:gcollins@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 12:10 PM
To: 'Vantage (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage Visual Scheduling Board
We have been using Vantage 3.0 since December 1999 but not the Visual
Scheduling Board. We are a custom shop and put through a lot of T&M's and
service orders which are generated right at Job Entry without work centre
details. We just add all the time in at job costing. Is there a way to use
the Visual Scheduling Board to include T&M's without having to add all of
the possible operations and estimated hours because otherwise we will never
have a reasonably accurate picture of what is scheduled? Any input would be
appreciated.
Gilda Collins
Pride Signs Ltd.
Tel: (519) 220 0505
Fax: (519) 220 0606
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Just tell us your IT needs. We'll bring the right providers to you
http://click.egroups.com/1/6324/13/_/411782/_/963928680/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)
is that if you do a good job scheduling the work for which you have advance
notice, then you will be in a much better position to manually schedule the
emergency stuff without negatively impacting the operation. If the
emergency stuff only takes one day then it probably doesn't make sense to
try and enter the details. But if it takes longer, you will need the detail
in order to make good decisions the next day or the next week. This is
especially true if you have multiple emergency jobs in your shop.
Specifically to the original question, if a majority of your jobs are T&M
and they must be started immediately after taking the order, then you have
to come up with some method for estimating the work and entering that
estimate into the schedule. Otherwise, you will never be able to understand
your capacity situation at any given time. However, you don't necessarily
need a complete routing. A single operation for each workcenter will do,
with estimated times for each.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Brumwell [mailto:kbrumwell@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 7:55 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage Visual Scheduling Board
I am taking the liberty of expanding on Gilda's scheduling question
regarding T & M orders.
In our industry unfortunately it is not a case of training our Quoters ,
Sales Personal, or updating BOM's.
We quite frequently are requested to repair a custom product built by a
competitor without the knowledge of actual dimensions, outer material or
electrical components. In most cases an employee will access the situation
at the Customers site, arrange to have their product brought in to the
facility and repaired on a T & M. Unfortunately for Scheduling, from the
time we receive the product and the duration the Customer may be without
this is minimal.
In other words, if it arrives today, start fixing it today. We do not have
the luxury of inserting this into our schedule because of the numerous
factors involved. The damage or repair required could be affecting their
business affairs or in a small percentage of times posing a risk to the
public. At no time prior to the product arriving can you fully appreciate
the operations or hours that may and will be involved. e.g. Custom paint
operation vs. standard paint operation.
Sam your valid question: "How would you, as a human, go about scheduling
the shop if you didn't know what operations were necessary or how long each
operation would take?"
This is the daily battle of all schedulers in this type of environment.
Quick demands for overtime, Sub-Contracting or even daily changing of the
schedule, is mandatory in keeping with Customer delivery dates including new
product.
Anticipating the question is "Field Service a viable solution". This module
is designed only for work in the field and does not allow for in house
participation or scheduling.
Gilda if you would like to contact myself directly, I may have some
solutions to assist you.
Kim Brumwell
Neon Products
Toronto
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 10:33 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage Visual Scheduling Board
How about garbage in / garbage out ...
Or
A little accuracy goes a long way ...
If you want a realistic schedule :
1) Key in routings with ALL of the steps required to make a part
2) For all operations key in your best guess as to how long it will take -
setup + runtime. For time and material jobs - put in your estimated run
times. Any setup and runtimes you put in are going to be more "Accurate"
then putting in "Zero" time.
3) Consider "Forward-Finite" scheduling your shop. Under "Finite"
scheduling Fixed Queue-Times are ignored - only move times have any
relevance.
4) After you run a part review the actual run-times and use that info to
re-educate your quoters so they will do better next time and also update
your BOM master routing so that next time you run the job the runtimes will
be more accurate.
5) Try REAL hard to get management and sales to understand that shop
capacity is FINITE, not INFINITE, and that they cannot insert 30 to 40 hours
of load TODAY on a work center that is back logged for 2 weeks without
repercussions !
The first 4 items are easy ... Just make it so ...
It's that last item that will get you every time. Sales people should all
be required to spend at least 1 month trying to schedule the shop floor
BEFORE they are allowed to talk to customers ...
Todd Anderson
J. Rubin & Co.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Southard [mailto:sams@...]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:18 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage Visual Scheduling Board
How would you, as a human, go about scheduling the shop if you didn't know
what operations were necessary or how long each operation would take?
As I've put it, it sounds silly, but I'd like to hear your responses. We
find the Visual Scheduling Board somewhat awkward to use, and disciplines on
inputting meaningful standards are lax. We're working on changing this, but
it's tough. We don't want to simply put 2 hour (for example) queue times at
a workcenter which takes, on average, 2 hours, because there's a high
variability in the time it would take and it would screw up the majority of
jobs that are properly estimated. As a result, the significant minority of
jobs which are not properly set up end up being scheduled to sail through
the shop in a single day.
-- Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: gcollins [mailto:gcollins@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 12:10 PM
To: 'Vantage (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage Visual Scheduling Board
We have been using Vantage 3.0 since December 1999 but not the Visual
Scheduling Board. We are a custom shop and put through a lot of T&M's and
service orders which are generated right at Job Entry without work centre
details. We just add all the time in at job costing. Is there a way to use
the Visual Scheduling Board to include T&M's without having to add all of
the possible operations and estimated hours because otherwise we will never
have a reasonably accurate picture of what is scheduled? Any input would be
appreciated.
Gilda Collins
Pride Signs Ltd.
Tel: (519) 220 0505
Fax: (519) 220 0606
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Conference Calling with Firetalk!
Click Here!
http://click.egroups.com/1/5480/13/_/411782/_/962980731/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Need technology solutions for your business? Respond.com can help.
Just tell us your IT needs. We'll bring the right providers to you
http://click.egroups.com/1/6324/13/_/411782/_/963928680/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)