So, I’m being told that a few times per week, production comes across some operations that weren’t completed, but were marked to be in MES or T&E. Every time I try to recreate the behavior, it works as expected. Mark the box in MES and upon hitting OK, the op is completed. Similarly, mark the “Op Complete” box in T&E and the operation is completed. Interestingly, the screenshots provided to me from production show the boxes in T&E marked and approved, but job adjustment shows the Op Complete box as unchecked.
I’m hesitant to go to support since I cannot replicate it and they’ll want to see the issue.
Has anyone experienced this?
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Known issue with the sync between operation status and sometimes qty and job head. According to Epicor they can’t reproduce it, but know it exists, and don’t know how to fix it. I see what you see infrequently, by more frequently see Labor Detail sum with say 10 completed but oper and head will say 0 completed.
Whether it’s been fixed by current patch 10.2 I can’t say.
Hmmm. Go figure.
I guess I’ll write a BPM to see if I can force the completion.
Wow, that is ugly! Most ERP systems use the operation completed flag to indicate that the operation does not require scheduling.
If it’s truly a bug, then the dispatch reports are likely to be inaccurate - listing items that have been completed!
Only using V8 here, but curious what other users are seeing - since we are actively pursuing upgrading.
So far, I’ve experienced this in versions 8.00, 9.05.702A and now 10.1.500.16.
Seems they’re having troubles rectifying the issue, which is understandable if they cannot replicate what’s causing it. Slightly annoying, though.
From my view, it’s more than “slightly annoying”. We must provide clear and accurate schedules to the shop, and the best way to mismanage that is to present a dispatch that lists items already run.
In our version of the software (8.03.406A), this problem has not been seen.
I’d be interested in hearing others weigh in on this.
Definitely more than slightly annoying. We got dinged on our last two ISO audits for having incomplete operations that were really completed. We resolved it by creating a dashboard that shows operations that have the op complete checkboxes not matching between the two different tables.
Here’s Epicor Support’s response when I opened a case:
We have some similar situations reported but all of the to correct what happened with the completed quantities and operations, this is a random situation and cannot be reproduced at will and normally happen with the setup of the Check boxes for completed quantities that may vary depending on your operation.
In order to correct this situation and mark as complete the operation you can do a Updatable BAQ to the JobOper and set the complete check box as updatable to update the status.
We have a fix also that can help us to update hte Completed quantity for the JobOper table.
Please try the updatable BAQ and if this does not work we can run the Fix.
I just wrote an in-trans BPM that when the LaborDtl.OpComplete goes from False to True, then force the JobOper.OpComplete equal to True. We’ll see how that goes as far as a workaround.
They also have a datafix for the workbench that tries to sync everything. They admit the issue has been there since V8, but believe it’s linked to a mixed use of certain modules, but they don’t know which ones.
I spent over 16 hours trying to troubleshoot this and recreate the issue, I could never do it. “Trying” defined by doing different things out of sequence that a user might do.
Aaron did you ever get your BPM to work? We tried something similar and the changes don’t ‘stick’ when we refresh. Would you mind sharing the business object you used?
Thanks,
Mark
Mark,
The BPM I have seems to work, but it did not solve the issue. We’re still trying to find the cause.
I did an in-trans that checked if the labordtl.Complete when from false to true, then ran this code:
var ttLaborDtlR = ttLaborDtl.FirstOrDefault(r=>r.Added() || r.Updated());
if( ttLaborDtlR != null )
{
string jNum = ttLaborDtlR["JobNum"].ToString();
int assemSeq = (int)ttLaborDtlR["AssemblySeq"];
int oprSeq = (int)ttLaborDtlR["OprSeq"];
bool opComp = (bool)ttLaborDtlR["OpComplete"];
foreach(var jobs in(
from jo in Db.JobOper.With(LockHint.UpdLock)
where jo.Company==Session.CompanyID && jo.JobNum==jNum && jo.AssemblySeq==assemSeq &&
jo.OprSeq==oprSeq
select new {jo}))
using(var scope = IceDataContext.CreateDefaultTransactionScope())
{
if( jobs.jo != null )
jobs.jo["OpComplete"] = opComp;
scope.Complete();
}
}
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Thanks Aaron, it’s certainly a pain how this works. We have other issues with using report quanity. Often the assemblies remain in the previous op and material 10 moves instead to the next op. Support isn’t being much help so we’re just going to use move wip to move the wip around. Since move wip doesn’t complete operations, we just want to manually flag the completion but the system is not cooperating.
Mark
@aidacra @Bart_Elia - Will the new telemetry capability provide detailed-enough data to let Epicor figure out the root cause in 10.2?
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We are experiencing this issue as well in 10.1.500.20 and I have reached out to Epicor for Help. I wish we had more to offer to help.
I have discovered how this happens and have reported it to Epicor. I think you are experiencing the same issue we were. What happens in Time and Expense Entry is that you can add multiple lines of the same operation. In the job, the operation appears complete. Then an employee who added the duplicate operation may have realized their mistake and deleted the line with the duplicate operation. Once this is done, the operation remains complete on Time and Expense because the duplicate was deleted but in the Job, the operation shows as incomplete. Epicor is not supposed to function this way but I had to figure this out for myself and test it before I opened the ticket. You can test this with the following steps:
Create a job with multiple job operations
Go to Time and Expense Entry and complete the first two operations
Add another Time and Expense Entry for the first operation
Check the job to make sure they are complete
Delete the Duplicate Operation from Time and Expense
Check the job to make sure the operation is incomplete
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We are seeing this with subcontract receipts as well. I haven’t been able narrow it down to a repeatable transaction but it does seem more frequent when JobOper.RunQty <> JobOper.QtyCompleted, despite the RcvDtl.IssuedComplete checkbox = TRUE.
All, I was wondering if there was a permanent solution figured out for this situation. We are experiencing multiple incidents where a job operation is marked complete with correct production quantities through Time and Expense Entry, however the job does not reflect the JobOper.OpComplete = TRUE (similar to the original post).
Thank you!
Did you get any responses from your post? We are experiencing the same issue and wonder if there was a fix from Epicor.
Thank you
Nope–never got anything from Epicor and never got a BPM to work 100% of the time.
We just manually fix them as we see them at this point…
Let me know if you open something with Epicor and get results.
Our issue was that the Labor entries were not Submitted. These records were all showing as Entered. Epicor had a fix that they ran to update the records to “Submitted” after I ran a BAQ to tell them what records to update. This did fix most records so the JobOp now shows complete but I had to update a few manually because the Labor Detail was showing the one check box of “Complete” but the “Operation Complete” wasn’t checked. Once I did this those records now show correctly.